Chris Lyon Wants to Share His Magick with You
Occultist & founder of the esoteric learning platform Mystai reflects on his magical origins & historical inspirations
Chris Lyon is an Occultist who came to magic at an early age through a haunted house and a long family lineage. HIs magical upbringing was a little bit folk and a little bit formal — and pretty serious. He met his mentor at age 11, who saved him from a breakdown and showed him how to cultivate his talents. When he moved away to London for college he immersed himself in the works of the Golden Dawn and studied Archaeology, focusing on funerary and temple architecture in the Near East.
These days, between seeing clients and preparing for graduate studies, he runs Mystai, an online magick school that offers a “complete occult education.”
I caught up with Chris to TALKTALKTALK the history of magick, best practices, and a whole lot more!
CV Henriette: I’m going to start with a small and important question: What’s your preferred title? Mage? Magician? ETC.
Chris Lyon: I generally use Magician or Occultist, because it makes the most sense in terms of my practice. Although, since I do also practice Contemplative Mysticism (mainly Socratic & Christian), I’m not opposed to being called a Mystic, although only if that is what I’m practicing at the time.
CVh: And now I will move on to an oversized and equally important question: What’s your definition of magic?
CL: I’ve actually devoted a lot of time to this question in the past. It’s surprisingly more difficult than people think. Magic is an aggregating term—that is, it encompasses diverse elements that may or may not be combined with each other. The different elements may not share any common defining feature that brings them under the umbrella of it, and they are not always linked by a shared essence.
People often fight me on it, but there is no real line between magic and religion. Magic historically is a term of “othering”, used to disparage a practice that the user of the word deems exotic or strange (i.e “well, i’m practicing religion, which is cool, but those guys over there, yeah, that’s magic”).
I’m a fan of antique definitions of magic such that it is the art or technology of creating change through the agency of spiritual creatures or otherwise Celestial influences. However, that definition doesn’t account for Natural Magic, which historically operated without the intercession of spiritual creatures, relying on the natural occult properties of substances, minerals or herbs.
From an experiential/subjective view, I suppose you could define magic as the process of creating meaningful/intentional coincidence. I often find it better to consider magic as part of esotericism, which can be defined as the branches of knowledge that have been set apart from mainstream religious & academic culture as “other”, and are worldviews and practices characterized by a strong emphasis on ideas that are at odds with materialistic science and post-enlightenment culture.
CVh: When we recorded our podcast episode, you made a lot of England specific magic references that I totally did not get. To break it down for me, and our audience, can you provide a brief (as possible) historical overview of English magical traditions? Ex: Golden Dawn v folk magic v traditional witchcraft.
CL: It’d be difficult to give an overview of British magical traditions entirely, without looking at the wider context. To keep it as simple as possible, the 12th-15th centuries in Europe are a pivotal time for magic. There are two major developments beginning in the 12th century that shape our understanding of magic. The first is an influx of philosophical, medical and magical texts being translated into Latin, predominantly from Arabic, but also, to a lesser extent, Greek & Hebrew.
This influx of Arabic grimoires from the end of the 11th century is the milieu in which we find the Picatrix. The magical texts of this movement are distinctly more intellectual and “learned” in the sense that they are handled, copied and owned mainly by intellectuals and scholars. During this time, magic seems to have been the concern of the upper classes more than the village cunning folk, although we still aren’t completely sure. Post 1100 AD, we also saw the rise of the University system, which provided a kind of underground community of clerics and priests that enabled the sharing of magical texts. University culture around theology and canon law shaped later definitions of magic and theologians clarified whether it was “natural” or “demonic”.
From the 15th century onwards, texts from this tradition began “leaking” out more widely into the general public, mainly as a result of vernacular translations, which meant the average people had more access to learned magical traditions (from Greece & Egypt, which had been preserved by Arabs) to combine with local folk customs that were latent survivals of Germanic paganism. Post-15th century is where we see a lot of witch trials happening, as suspicion mounts and there is a growing fear of magic in general. The 1430s-1440s especially saw the emergence of the Witchcraft Mythology such as sabbats, cannibalism, deals with the devil & broomsticks, especially in places like Switzerland, Italy & the Alpine regions.
All of this is having effects on England and influencing the magical tradition and perception of magic. For our sake though, bear in mind the distinction between the kind of Learned Magic derived from Arabic & Greek works, and the Village practice of the Cunning Folk, which was largely oral in nature and consisted of rhymed caltraps, alliteration spells and herbs, and much more practical everyday magic.
Moving forward to today, post-Wicca (which was founded in the 1950s by Gerald Gardner), there is a movement to try and reclaim this older tradition of Village Folk Magic from the 11th-18th centuries, which we call Traditional Witchcraft. Traditional/Natural Craft is a collective name for any of the practices, beliefs & rituals that form part of folklore & local/regional tradition that pre-date Gardnerian Wicca (i.e the 50s). In the same environment, we also have new orders of the Golden Dawn popping up which claim ancestry from the Rosicrucians. They are mostly 19th century Theosophist inspired (a kind of New Age religion founded by Helena Blavastky). Originally the Golden Dawn was founded in the 19th century but fractured and split by the 1920s, splintering into various small “temples” and lodges.
Since its inception, Traditional Witchcraft has also splintered into various lineages, such as Cockrane’s Craft, the Cultus Sabbati of Andrew Chumbley, the Feri tradition etc.
CVh: Now, tell me something of your own lineage. The practices of the house you grew up in—and those of your extended family.
CL: I have two predominant lineages. My familial one is regional folk based, today around Kent where I grew up & live. However, my family are originally from France (Alpine Celtic), so some Brittonic folklore is also incorporated. A lot of my family now lives further north of the Midlands, but my paternal grandparents are from Kent. There is extensive maritime & sea folklore in Kent, and my private family name indicates our old profession was shipbuilding, so at family dinners & such we often gave offerings to the coasts & old world sea deities/spirits.
In general though, it is very regional (as is most trad craft). I had an altar growing up, in my room, courtesy of my mentor, who was originally a kind of extended family friend. He was also the one who got me involved with more coven work growing up, the kind of “formal” stuff. My family has never really been one for formal Craft. Our practices were superstitious & folkloric more than anything else, i.e the sayings grandparents passed down. It was through my mentor that I got most of my practical folk magic training. My other lineage is more scholarly, being largely Hermeticist and in the current of Thoth/Hermes, which is what forms the focus of my graduate studies.
CVh: What was it like growing up in a haunted house? In our previous conversation, you shared stories around being a super sensitive child in a supercharged house. Can you share a bit of that here?
CL: It always sounds fun until you’re in it. Looking back, I’m thankful for experiences of night terrors & apparitions now, as they helped to condition me with a magical worldview from very young, but it terrified me at the time. I remember practically being attached to my mother at the hip until late childhood because I refused to go in my bedroom alone. Getting an altar helped centralize the activity—however, I learnt later in life, not to have one in your room. As far as I’m aware, there was nothing special about the house itself, no ley lines or anything. So whatever the activity, it seemed centered around us as the residents.
CVh: Currently, you are still living in that home, how have the two of you made peace?
CL: Having firm boundaries around practice have really helped. I’ve shifted the altar and workspace into a backroom that is used only for ritual, and now most of the activity is centered there, which makes it easier to contain. I predominantly work with spirits anyway, so having them around is useful now that I know how to communicate, direct and work with them. I’ve found spirits also respect formal ritual, so having a fully functioning temple with a circle & altar set up consistently helps.
CVh: You found your mentor at an early age. Tell me something about that relationship. How did you find them? How important do you think mentorship is to learning magic?
CL: For me, my mentor was a kind of extended family friend, who was introduced to me through a mutual acquaintance. He took me on from around 11/12 years old when I started to really feel like I was losing control or seeing things that were causing me distress. He taught me control, especially with energy work & ritual and how to communicate with spirits intentionally, rather than having them appear randomly to me. I owe him a lot of my early years. Although we eventually parted ways and stopped talking due to personal differences & a falling out, I do think having a personal mentor is important.
The relationship between a Teacher & a Student is a Mystery unto itself. Knowledge is transmitted not just through words, but through presence & energy. I’ve heard some authors say that having a magical/ritual partner of the opposite sex is also beneficial in magical work.
CVh: As an archaeologist, where do magic and archaeology overlap for you?
CL: I specialized in Near Eastern archaeology, specifically temple & tomb architecture in the Southern Levant. In my graduate studies I'm focusing on the mechanics (and expression) of Egyptian ritual as it appears in hieratic & wisdom literature, and the extent to which Dynastic motifs can inform our understanding of Hermetica. So, the overlap is quite strong, as the majority of my excavation time has been on sites and locations that were intended for ritual use and many of the artifacts I’ve handled have been ritualistic in nature.
CVh: What are your thoughts on magic and technology? Historically and in the present moment.
CL: Depending on how you define technology, you could argue that magic itself is a technology. The etymology of the word comes from the Greek Tekhnē & Logia. Tekhē is defined as an art or craft with learnable principles, and logos is a kind of discourse or discussion on a subject. So the word itself means “a discourse on the arts”. To the Greeks, magic itself was classified as a Tekhē from about the 5th century BC. In modern times the word has taken on the meaning of industrial advancement & mechanical arts since the 1900s. I think where magic could come into focus again would be AI. I’ve seen people designing rituals like the LBRP in VR, or perhaps creating their astral temple or ritual spaces in the Metaverse to aid in visualization. I’ve also seen people use Midjourney to create sigils & images of spirits that can be used for scrying, which I think is fascinating.
CVh: You’re working on an app for magic practitioners. My first thought is that some of magic’s greatest rewards come from putting in the work? Do you think there’s something to lose in making the process too easy?
CL: I think there is a difference between easy and accessible. An app such as the one we’re making aims to make material accessible to practitioners whether through courses, a ritual library or personal coaching in a mentorship role. It also serves to connect people without ads & annoying social media censorship getting in the way. I think, if anything, having a dedicated space to work in, with access to materials on your phone or tablet, with groups of other students or practitioners would motivate someone more than it would make them lazy.
CVh: Finally, what words of advice do you have for folks looking to start a magic practice?
CL: I think people get into magic for the wrong reasons, whether it be money, knowledge or power. Having clearly defined goals that center around self growth, betterment & service that you get clear on before coming into a magical path will help you in the long run. Once you have those goals in mind and you know yourself well enough, find a system that resonates with you and stick with it, at least for a while until you get consistent results.
CVh: What’s exciting? Where can people find you?
CL: Our final module of Occult Mystery & Magic, our occultism course just started, which is on Astral Projection, Dream Incubation & Consciousness, so you can still sign up for that. We’re teaching twice a week at the minute. Otherwise, the next live course is most likely beginning in January and will focus on historical Hermeticism and feature extracts from my own graduate studies—which I'm very excited for.
The app is coming soon. It is finished and built. We’re just working on the back end now to get it approved by Google & Apple & flesh out marketing & pricing plans and we hope to launch in January or February, just in time for Aries season.
FOR FURTHER ENTERTAINMENT:
LISTEN to TalkTalkTalk w/ Chris Lyon of Mystai HERE
READ An Occultist Untangles Psychedelics & Magic HERE
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STUDY with Chris through his learning platform Mystai HERE